August 2001 Archive of Music Software Discussion & Help Page  

Music Software Discussion and Help


Archive: August 2001



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Collaborating online

anyone else tried out Rocket Network for collaborating? I use it with Cubase and finding it a really useful tool for bringing in tracks from friends across the world.

Would like to hear other thoughts.

Dave

(web site is www.rocketnetwork.com)

chord analysis

is there anyone out there who knows of any macintosh software that will idetify chords from a sterio input (cd,tape,phono)

Re: chord analysis

Is this just for single instruments or for complete tracks?

Andy

help please!!!

i am really looking for a program that will edit songs like to edit the profanity..does anything like that exist? please email me if u have ne ideas?? i really really want to edit some songs and dont know how...thanx...bye!

Re: help please!!!

: i am really looking for a program that will edit songs like to edit the profanity..does anything like that exist? please email me if u have ne ideas?? i really really want to edit some songs and dont know how...thanx...bye!

The only way to remove "profanity" is to blank out
a short part of the music or to place a "bleep" sound
over the top of it - you might have heard this while
listening to the radio or tv.

You can do this using software like <a href="http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/Cool_Edit_2k/">Cool Edit 2000</a>

Jason.

PLEASE help me!! (SO!!!-important)

Hello!...

-I have win2000 -but for a few days ago I got my computer shared in another control system(WinME).
-Then when I start the computer -I`t will ask me wich system I want to use.
-Then I use Win ME to make music with Logic-and win2000 to everything else!
-So It`s VERY important that all my fx.games-dosn`t is on the´Win ME system!
-BUT (here comes the problem)--The hard disk is seperated in 3 drives -and when I fx. erease a document or anything--I restart the computer -and choose the win2000 system-and then what I just changed in the other system-is now also changed here (And it`s NOT only when I erease stuff-but EVERYTHING I do is "remembered" by the other.
(well here comes the strange part--the new control system (win ME) cannot connect to the internet because it isn`t setup. And fx. it can`t play a Mp3 file -but it can see it allright.....
---But I really want to make the two control systems COMPLETLY independent of the other, so you CAN`T affect or even see -what is on the other control system!
PLEASE-feel free to ask if you can`t understand my problem......

BUT WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?????
-Thanks
...Peter

Re: PLEASE help me!! (SO!!!-important)

Several OSs demand a separate hd for each one (partitions might not be secure).
After installing any program on a specific OS always restart on the SAME OS (RAM resident tasks finish the install after restart).
Reinstall properly all defective programs...

help

I have about 40 cd+g, and I need to put them on paper so my company can pick out a song. How do I do it?

Re: help

: I have about 40 cd+g, and I need to put them on paper so my company can pick out a song. How do I do it?

goto shareware.com !!!

ProTools 5.1.0 bug?

Does anyone know why sometimes the mute button of an audio track in the Mackie HUI (used as ProTools controller) doesn´t cut the signal going through a send in ProTools directed to any of the interface outputs no matter if it is pre or post fader.

Lost Hard Drive Space

I took my computer in for an upgrade in Hard Drive memory. when I got it back, I have lost access to 2 gig. Windows does not recognize that it even exists. I have a 6 gig installed. I physically verified that is in fact what I have. Also Bios has the correct information for a 6 gig. How do I regain the lost 2 gig?

Re: Lost Hard Drive Space

here is how you get your hard drive space back:

1. there should be a sealed port in the back of your computer- open it up
2. put your dick in the port after jacking off(but not before cumming)
3. cum in the port.
Why this works:
there is probably a semiconducting circut in your computer that is not working. The chemichal composition of cum works in such a way that it can make broken semiconductors conduct. But, just don't tell your girlfreind you did this or she will think you are a sick computer fucker- which you are considering you fucked your computer- but hey, it worked on my computer.

Re: Lost Hard Drive Space

: I took my computer in for an upgrade in Hard Drive memory. when I got it back, I have lost access to 2 gig. Windows does not recognize that it even exists. I have a 6 gig installed. I physically verified that is in fact what I have. Also Bios has the correct information for a 6 gig. How do I regain the lost 2 gig?

You didn't say which version of Windows you are
running but my guess is that it can only read a
4 gig partition.

You may have to create a second partition for the
other 2 gigs.

Each partition then shows up in Windows as a separate
disk even though they are really one physical disk.

The best setup is to have your software on the small
partition and use the large one for files such as
audio that you're working on.

Rather than go into the description on how to do
this I suggest you ask the place that upgraded it
to do it for you (I'm surprised they didn't already).

One thing though - always back up everything before
re-partitioning because even though some software
will claim to be able to do it without blanking your
disk this is one of those operations that can easily
wipe your disk.

I hope this helps,
Jason.

do you know any programs that will convert mp3 to .wav

I am looking into buying a cd burner before i do i want to find a program that will convert mp3 to .wav please help i would greatly appreciate it.

do you know any programs that will convert mp3 to .wav

: I am looking into buying a cd burner before i do i want to find a program thathelp i would greatly appreciate it.

will convert mp3 to .wav please

Re: do you know any programs that will convert mp3 to .wav

: I am looking into buying a cd burner before i do i want to find a program that will convert mp3 to .wav please help i would greatly appreciate it.

I use a program called CDEX, its freeware, And I get from this url "http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1896417-100-6831063.html" or go to cnet.com and search for it. it converts wav to mp3, mp3 to wav, cd to wav or mp3. Works well

Re: do you know any programs that will convert mp3 to .wav

there are LOADS! CDEx is one which i like for simplicity + quality of conversion. check the freeware section.

Re: do you know any programs that will convert mp3 to .wav

: there are LOADS! CDEx is one which i like for simplicity + quality of conversion. check the freeware section.

music match works well too

Mixers

I Want to download a mp3 mixer, something I can create my own, beats on, or just simply combine songs on. I wanted to know what the best mixer out there was?

Re: Mixers

: I Want to download a mp3 mixer, something I can create my own, beats on, or just simply combine songs on. I wanted to know what the best mixer out there was? Cool Edit 2000 Or Cool Edit Pro best ever made can dpo anything on it

Re: Mixers

: I Want to download a mp3 mixer, something I can create my own, beats on, or just simply combine songs on. I wanted to know what the best mixer out there was?

Maybe my freeware mixer is something you need.
With pitch, cue and more

drummachin on mac

does anybody know if there is a fruity-loops for macintosh?
if not, can you tell me an other program which is similar to fruityloops.

thx
i_dragon

Re: drummachin on mac

PROPPELERHEAD/ REBIRTH

Rebirth=FL? lol

Well Rebirth doesn't take VST effects, VST instruments, DX effects, DX instruments, doesn't take multiple samples for instruments,doesn't have a piano roll and basically is #nothing# compared to the mighty Fruit. If u want to be able to use all the incredible software out there I suggest you buy a cheap PC. You could buy expensive Mac high end programs but the money would be better spent on a PC and terrific cheap/freeware PC apps.

Convert .sng to .wav

I have a program that supposedly converts .sng files to .wav but my .sng files are of an older, incompatible generation. I want to be able to record them onto cd for playing on any cd. Can anyone help?

Re: Convert .sng to .wav

What program are you using to convert .SNG files to .WAV format? I've been looking for one for ages.

-LIZ.

: I have a program that supposedly converts .sng files to .wav but my .sng files are of an older, incompatible generation. I want to be able to record them onto cd for playing on any cd. Can anyone help?

need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

Is there any way you can remove the backin track so that you are just left with the vocal????
Ive seen earlier that Andre posted a reply with inverting the centre channel for removing the vocal, but is there any way to keep it.

thanx steve

simple solution

if there is, get an acapella version of the song from vinyl, cd singles, or whatever

removing the vocals to then remove the backing from the original

you can remove vocals like this and then use that to take away from the original to leave you with just the vocals maybe?

Removing Vocals

Removing vocals from an audio track has long been the desire of musicians and remixers in order to obtain the instrumental version of a song, otherwise available only as a complete mix. The sections below explain how this task can be accomplished and some of the problems that can get in the way.

Is Removing Vocals Possible?

Yes and no. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer because it depends on many factors including what instruments and sound elements make up the non-vocal part of the audio signal and how these and the vocals have been processed and mixed into the final recording. In most cases, you can not expect to get results that are acceptable for professional use. However, in some cases, it is possible to render reasonable output useful in many, non-professional, scenarios. And, once in awhile, it is even possible to get excellent results.

Automatic Approach
A few software programs are capable of removing vocals from a stereo audio file automatically, eliminating the hassle of the multi-step manual procedure described in the following section. Some of these programs include.

AnalogX Vocal Remover - DirectX Plugin
Sound Forge - Featured in 4.5 or higher

Manual Approach
While the automatic approach is easier, the manual approach can be accomplished in most audio editing software. It also provides insight into how the automatic vocal removal feature in most software works.

This method of removing vocals can be accomplished fairly easily, but depends greatly on how the entire mix was recorded. This method works when all or most of the non-vocal audio is mixed in stereo (some more to the left and some to the right) and the vocals are mixed in the center. Fortunately, this is common practice in popular music, making it a fairly reasonable method for many songs.

Tip: While most audio editors don't have an automatic vocal removal feature, many do provide "macro" functionality, which allows you to record the steps described above, and then replay them on any audio file or selection. See your program's documentation to learn how.

Open the stereo audio file in an audio editor.
Select and reverse the phase of the left channel (also called Invert or Flip). This option is usually presented in the Edit menu.
Mix the both the left and right channels of the stereo file into a single-channel (mono) audio file. This option is also usually found in the Edit menu, but is sometimes accomplished by editing the file's format properties from the File menu (ie. Sound Forge).
Split the single-channel audio file back into a stereo file that has the newly mixed single-channel on both the left and right channels. This procedure is usually close to the one used to mix the channels.
Now reverse the phase of the left channel back again, the same way it was accomplished earlier.
The resulting stereo audio file should now contain the same mix with all center-mixed audio cancelled from the mix. Hopefully, the entire instrumental contents will still exist, while the vocals will be canceled, or at least much more quite.

Problems Removing Vocals
Due to the complexity of many music and audio tracks, removing vocals using the method described above may result in poor or useless results. For example, when many of the background elements are also mixed in the center of the stereo spectrum and overlap or share the same frequency range with the vocals, the method above will produce distorted results that have lost much more than just vocals.

Additionally, effects, such as echo and reverb are often applied to vocals before they are recorded to the final mix. Unlike the commonly centered vocals, these effects tend not to be centered, making them difficult to remove. Additionally, the effects can distort and alter the vocals in ways that result in audio outside the normal vocal frequency range, making it difficult to "EQ out".

With some trial and error, you'll develop an ear for determining which audio tracks contain vocals that can be successfully removed and which do not. While the method described here does not always work, it is a fairly simple procedure that in many cases can render useful results.

What if:

We take away the Vocals as detailed above then use that copy with the vocals taken away to do the same process on the original with the vocals and we may be left with just the vocals?

I.E. after removing the vocals use the left side on our version with no vocals to eliminate the backing on our original left side with vocals and do the same for the right?

Re: removing the vocals to then remove the backing from the orig

Thank you xe-cute.

The manuel way to remove vocals worked amazingly on a few tracks. I had a couple that came out poorly but still did good enough. I was also able to pull out all low bass separate from hi's

anyway thank you for the tip.

Soulxone

Re: need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

I understand there is no possibility of removing the backing music, but what program do you recommend to minimize all possible noise except vocal?

Re: need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

: Is there any way you can remove the backin track so that you are just left with the vocal????
: Ive seen earlier that Andre posted a reply with inverting the centre channel for removing the vocal, but is there any way to keep it.

First off it is not impossible, but the end result is bad, unless you'v got a spare 10+ grand to spend on hardware as well as software.

to get a result you need two copies of your track (wav/mp3)do a GOOD job of striping the vocals from one. Then..... Well I think I'll keep this to my self from here as there seems to be a market in it. but here are two hints:
hint1 MONO
hint2 subtract.

like I said it "works" but the result is crap.

BD

Re: need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

Steve.
You're looking for a solution to the problem at hand and people fighting over this issue is not helping very much, I would think.
As Andy points out very clearly it is not possible to completely remove anything a complex sound picture without seriously affecting the remaining part. However, depending on what you need the vocal for you can get a pretty good result with a "sharp" EQ as Deron suggests or a "Spectral Gate" as the one you'll find in Emagic's Logic Audio. What it comes down to is that with the technology available today you can do no better than to try to remove as much of the unwanted material as you can and then cover up the rest in the mix of your new song. But don't get discouraged. Even if you think there's too much of the original still audible when soloing this new vocal track just give it a go. You'll be surprised what you can get away with. Have fun! That's what it's all about...

Re: need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

How can I import a wave file into this Logic Audio? I have Platinum, and I'm trying to seperate the prayer during Enter Sandman for my band to use live without the music. I know it's not possible to get rid of all the music, but I know I can limit it enough that it might not be noticeable.

FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

As I've said many times before, it's simply not possible to selectively remove particular parts of a track - vocals or instruments. As for inverting the centre channel - what centre channel? Stereo consists of left and right channels, so ho do you get a centre channel from it, and what happens to any instruments that happen to be playing behind the vocalist?

However, if someone would like to prove me wrong, and provide evidence of how this can be done, I'll eat my shoe.

Andy

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

Prepare to eat your shoe.

Although the results are not always fantastic, it is possible.

When people talk of a 'centre channel', they mean simply the sound that is equally spread between left and right: because vocals are usually mixed in the centre of the mix in most pop music.

Once you have gotten rid of all the sounds that don't have an equal prescence on both tracks, you will have the 'centre channel'. Now, on this channel will likely be the vocals, the bass, the kick and any other elements that the producer couldn't be bothered to pan.

Hopefully though, you will have just the bass elements and the vocals, as any producer worth his salt wouldn't leave anything else dead centre. Now all you need to do is roll off the bottom end to cancel out the bass.

You HAVE to do this with a TRUE stereo sample. (A mono file converted into stereo won't work for obvious reasons.) So if you've got your copy of the song off vinyl, it won't work.

The results may not be anywhere near perfect, but they're good to use in a fledgling mix, and then once you've got it sounding good enough, maybe you can send it to the label of the artist in question and they may give you the original acapella to use!

If you want to hear some evidence, link here...

http://acapellas.forums4u.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=31

Have fun and e-mail me!

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

I've heard that if you have an a capella mix of a song, by inverting the phase and mixing that with the originaly version of the song, it will cancel out the original vocals (I assume if you had an instrumental version and just wanted the vocals, you could do the same thing with the music). It seems like this would work, but I've never tried it.
Anyone?

: As I've said many times before, it's simply not possible to selectively remove particular parts of a track - vocals or instruments. As for inverting the centre channel - what centre channel? Stereo consists of left and right channels, so ho do you get a centre channel from it, and what happens to any instruments that happen to be playing behind the vocalist?

: However, if someone would like to prove me wrong, and provide evidence of how this can be done, I'll eat my shoe.

:
: Andy

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

It looks like it is time for you to "eat your shoe" :-P ...we are waiting... EAT IT!

Re: need to remove backin track so im left with vocal

I posted the same question at a different list. They suggested using programs like Sound Forge.

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

but if, as you're saying, removing vocals of a song is impossible, why there are lots of programs such as AnalogX VocalRemover or DartKaraoke that are specially designed to do that? Try typing 'vocal remover' in the search box in this site and you'll find much more.

So I have the following question: if there is possible to remove vocals from a song, is it also possible to do the opposite, -remove background music from a song and leave only vocals-?

Thanks

not easy, never impossible..

: As I've said many times before, it's simply not possible to selectively remove particular parts of a track - vocals or instruments. As for inverting the centre channel - what centre channel? Stereo consists of left and right channels, so ho do you get a centre channel from it, and what happens to any instruments that happen to be playing behind the vocalist?

: However, if someone would like to prove me wrong, and provide evidence of how this can be done, I'll eat my shoe.

:
: Andy

You need a mixing desk, sampler(possibly a software sampler) and a recordable device.

Not an easy techinqe, but if you have tried everything else:

Make a copy of the track you wish to take the vocal off.

Put the original copy through one channel on your desk and the copy through another.

set the EQ flat on both channels, then start both tracks at EXACTLY the same time.
you have now created a phase loop, (the frequencys cancel each other out and create a phasing sound.)

tweek the EQ on one channel at the frequency of the vocal, (boost it around mid range).

with some playing around you can bring the vocal out of phase, and it becomes clear. Then sample this combined signal.

Using high and low pass filters remove any unwanted signals, leaving the vocal, well as close as possible!!
good luck

Pablo

Re: Mission Impossible

Well said. Except you forgot about Dolby 5.1, and THX 7.1 and the likes. Still, I know you weren't referring to digital surround sound protocols. Even some of those fancy systems don't have a center channel!!

p.s. = Minnetonka's SurCode is a nice program for
creating 5.1 CD's. I said CD's not DVD's!

Don't eat your shoe, you were right. Just bite your toenails instead until somebody invents some FFT software that does it.

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

You say that removing individual instruments from a song is impossible. Have you ever listened to dub? Dub mixer type people (King Tubby, Lee Perry etc) would take an old tune and then remove instruments and then fade them in and out as required. Are you saying that this is only impossible with software? Because it's done with hardware everyday.

It could be done in analog (maybe digitaly)

Ok, i think he means the track, not the channel, removing vocals has nothing to do with channel (unless the vox are panned far left of far right).

but to "invert the track" would mean to ME to use a 4 pole notch filter (digitaly you can emulate any "slope" of filter you desire) around the Freq. range of the vocals. or possibly several notch filters aranged at intervals coinciding with the harmonics of the vocals (the human voice is far from a perfect sine wave). now that is how I would remove vocals, leaving only music (albeit slighty different due to the fact that no matter how carefully you arrange your filters, your going to cut out some content of a band). also, if you want to get really advanced, you could find a way of envelope controling your filters (this is all theory, i preach no step by step way for you. i'm just trying to say that it IS possible).

Now, once you have a copy of the music, without vocals, all you have to do is take an original of opposite phase (that is, when one wave is in the upswing, the other is in the downswing), and electronicly (again, i'm not a programmer, i couldn't explain how to do this digitaly) combine the two, so that the each cancel eachother out, leaving only the differences. yes, this actually works, its been used for decades in a slighty simplifed for for guitar pickups.

Now, what should be left is a vocal track, although, with all the filtering its been through, not the most true to original.

i hope maybe someone understands this more than I do, and can utilize the wave theory behind it digitaly!

Zane

It could be done in analog (and it is!)

I should mention this technique is also used in most amplifiers. Its called NFB (negitive Feedback) and its used in the opposite manner we are going for, in that the "product" of the 2 signals is subtracted from the input, as to reduce the distortion and noise that was produced by the last gain stage.

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

okay
if its impossible...then how are remix's made? Like thunderpuss mixes and such? how do they do it?

jon

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

eat your shoes if it's what you want

first you need to find the frequency lines of the vocal
(hey in stereo you get no mid)by the way it's not with stereo you'll get rid of these
so if the vocal sounds (on a scale from 0 to 100 0 being the lowest bass and 100 being the highest sound)
between 45 and 47 you keep only these frequencies
i don't know wich software have more than bass mid treble adjustment but if you can do it with frequency it's gona be good for it

but don't try it with nofx cause the guitar is about to be equal to the singer

then you can always try to trim it with a lot of work

so you can always eat the lacers and keep the rest of the shoes for a later future

i whish i wasn't wrong with it...so gdbye

this would decrease vocal sound quality

As Andy said before it cant be possible
Thats true
But atleast try by some equalizer software/plugins
to compress some instruments
or
low band pass/high band pass
U had to edit more than enough
this would decrease vocal sound quality,
But again use some echo features to get that feel
AS rightly said ANDY, u cant remove totally instruments
I think i tried my best

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

there is a software called vocal remover plug in for winamp which can remove the voice and leave the music behind search in google to find it

Re: FOR THE LAST TIME...IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

Andy,

The reason you feel this is IMPOSSIBLE is because you're only considering analog techniques involving channel mixing, equalization, etc. While there is no commercial product (to my knowledge) available, in theory, it IS possible to separate mixed audio using a technique called deconvolution. With the audio in a digital format, the only limitation is the algorithms involved.

It is theoretically possible and there is research underway that will eventually result in a solution to this problem. Don't each your shoe quite yet, but you may want to prepare yourself to eat it down the road.

You might want to check out the following websites:

http://www.cs.tut.fi/sgn/arg/research.html
http://web.media.mit.edu/~westner/papers/thesis.pdf

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